Driver Training Consultation Discussion

We want to know what your experience has been like through the driver training and assessment process. Has your experience been good or bad? What factors contributed to this experience?

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Carol Cox-De Vore

19 Sep 2018

Tried to do the survey but since did not get my license through the current system, gave up on it as most questions were not applicable. I believe it is too easy for hours and skills to be fudged with logbook system and too many young people are not being adequately supervised or trained. I see far too many young people who are unable to adequately maintain lane position, make illegal overtaking manoeuvres, drive over centre lines or kerb lines, drive around blind corners over the centre line, use excessive speed, etc. I feel there should be more mandatory driver instruction lessons - I know this can be costly but how do you value a life saved? Of course, older and more experienced drivers also drive poorly and I believe that older drivers should be face mandatory on road driving tests after a certain age - perhaps at 70, 75, 80 and thereafter annually. I would certainly be happy to do so. Allowing older drivers to self-determine their abilities, and with family members or family doctors often reticent about referring their elderly relatives or patients to the relevant authorities for testing, results in no longer competent drivers staying on the road and causing huge risks to other drivers.

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Tezz Motogp

18 Sep 2018

I see this question has provoked a number of responses and I haven’t had time to read them all but I just want to get down to basics here. Young people will be young people and they can’t wait to get behind the wheel of a car with their mates in the car, not their parents. That’s the way it’s been since time in memoriam. It was the case when I was a kid learning to drive, as it was when my son was learning to drive. The difference for my son is that I am convinced that he would not be alive today if it wasn’t for the $300 I spent on giving him advanced driver training at AIR. That was 14 years ago now. Approximately 10years ago he was driving home from his dads house in the Adelaide Hills, minding his own business, not breaking the law at all when he rounded a blind corner and saw a BMW right in front of him on the wrong side of the road dangerously passing another car! Immediately, the advanced driver training my son received kicked into gear and he knew what to do to give himself, the BMW driver and the other vehicles occupants, the best chance of survival - my son looked at the cliff face on his left and he got as close to the cliff face as he could and made it possible for all 3 cars to make it through this tight corner without incident. I will always believe that we should teach our kids how to get out of trouble if they get into it. Assume the kid is going to do something silly because they probably are - but give them the tools to get out of it if they do! Forget parallel parking - teach them how to power out of a slip off of the road into dirt! That’s what’s going to save lives - stronger emphasis on handling the vehicle. I took the time to write to the Govt. after my son’s incident to plead for better driver education - what response did I get? “We’re not in the business of teaching our kids to be racing car drivers” - completely missed my point.

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Helen Guthberlet

18 Sep 2018

I agree with Angela Sorger's comment regarding learner driving training that "parents play a pivotal role in allowing the hours to be fudged and signing off on them". The whole learner/provisional licence process is far too long and I don't think it improves the quality of the driver. I also have grave concerns that senior citizens are causing many issues on the roads and that mandatory testing should be necessary for 75 years plus -- and this does not mean just driving around the block. There should be a written test, driving test and also health checks.

Diane Campbell > Helen Guthberlet

19 Sep 2018

Possibly. Actually anyone so incapacitated that they are on the invalid pension probably should have an assessment if they are to drive......

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Angela Sorger

12 Sep 2018

Driver taining- I can only comment on wht I experienced sending my children through driving training. I believe alot of the hours submitted by learner drivers are not genuine. I do think parents play a pivotal role in allowing the hours to be fudged and signing off on them. I also understand that the age group where most accidents are occuring are teens to 24 years. Bringing in Mandatory refresher courses is fine if you want to do them yourself but most people wouldn't like to and the resources that would have to be made available would be significant and probably a cost to the consumer. Why not take a leaf out of USA and do driver training in school I also think that a course offered should include training on dirt roads and possibly defensive training. I also think that Transport SA need to look at child restraints and more emphasis should be placed on this, there are many children still travelling in cars not properly restrained.

Government Agency

Driver Training Reform > Angela Sorger

12 Sep 2018

Hi Angela, thanks for your comments. I agree with much of your thoughts. We are also currently looking at adding a defensive driving task to the CBT&A (logbook).
I see the overall issue that we are grappling with as three fold;
How do we remind licence holders of the privilege of holding a drivers licence? and
How do we emphasise to all community members their responsibility to keep others safe on the roads (eg parents with logbook hours and incorrect child restraints) and
How we do both of the above in the least resource-intensive way?
Any thoughts or suggestions on this are more than welcome!
In relation to the correct use of child restraints, we have a tonne of licence related information on our website www.mylicence.sa.gov.au including child restraints such as here http://mylicence.sa.gov.au/road-rules/seatbelts-and-child-restraints . Help us get the message out there to the community that the Mylicence website is a key and up-to-date resource for a simple explanation of a licence holder or vehicle owner's responsibilities and obligations.

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Darren Clark

29 Aug 2018

I think that periodic online refresher courses(maybe every two or three years) that could be done from home or in the case of people who don't have a computer at the local Services SA office or even public libraries, in fact wherever free access to online computers could be a start to get road users thinking about the road laws, because I can guarantee that most road users don't read another thing related to road laws after their test is complete and passed. The online course could have some practice activities/road rule examples straight out of the drivers handbook and then have a test or assessment at the end. This sort of online practice/assessment could be managed through the Ezy Reg portal so as to register the person logged in. I know that some people will probably say that there will be a number of people that wont do the assessment themselves and get someone else to do it on their behalf or they might "cheat" by having a resource to get the answers from but we have to admit that people may still be thinking about the road laws and having discussions about various road laws and isn't that better than the current situation? We have to when discussing these types of education issues embrace the concept of trust and just hope that some learning is taking place and I cant see why this would have to cost much, if anything at all. In the event that some people cant pass the assessment after maybe two tries then maybe they need to wait a period of time before doing it again maybe two weeks and they then have the opportunity to brush up on the road laws and try again. If they fail again maybe they need to come into the Services SA and do a more formal refresher.

Government Agency

Driver Training Reform > Darren Clark

30 Aug 2018

Hi Darren, I appreciate your suggestions - all food for thought. If you think of any other ideas please feel free to post again.

Diane Campbell > Darren Clark

19 Sep 2018

good idea.... but if its brought in I'd suggest a choice for voluntary/anonymous and/or at least an anonymous practice site

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Grant Tucker

29 Aug 2018

I am involved in the training industry, and I feel that the industry is being held accountable for the general standard of road users. This is a flawed assumption, as there is little or no police involvement in maintaining a high level of road law compliance once the learner progresses onto a full licence. In fact, I sit daily and watch even the police vehicles showing complete disregard for many road rules in their daily driving. Until road law is policed, in all cases (not just RBT'S and speed cameras) there is little or no reason for the average driver to obey any inconvenient road law. IE: illegal U Turns, solid lines, stop signs, running late orange and red lights, mobile phones, signalling, give way laws etc etc... How can I sit and tell a student that all these things MUST be followed when we continually witness the other road users displaying complete disregard for the same laws. The instructors are also amongst the very few people who know of and understand the Government standards, with most parents or learners being completely ignorant of the expectations required to pass. this leaves us exposed to criticism by students and parents of being rip off merchants as they have decided their child can already drive but just needs help with parking. They see no need for 10 or more lessons, as they are using their own skills as the bench mark, which by all accounts can be very ordinary. Perhaps qualified supervising drivers (parents etc) need to be trained first to ensure a standard. This approach will possibly improve and renew current drivers skills and information, and produce better new drivers. To me, this is one of the few potentially life threatening areas of education, where the student can be schooled almost entirely by an uneducated and inexperience person.

Government Agency

Driver Training Reform > Grant Tucker

29 Aug 2018

Hi Grant, thanks for your comments.
I hear your frustration. Police have a big job to do to enforce all aspects of law in the community and I know that they do what they can.
This project seeks to ensure that there is a high quality of driver training provided to the community - regardless of who provides the training. Why? Because road safety within our community is influenced by the quality of driver training and assessment provided. Along these lines, we're already thinking about how we can engage parents or qualified supervising drivers via tools and resources so that they don't pass on their bad habits to their children but instead teach them to how to drive correctly. As a member of the driver training industry you will have opportunity to provide your comment in stage 2 of the consultation but I'm interested whether you already have thoughts that you'd like to share about how we could (better) train qualified supervising drivers (parents)? All suggestions for improvements are welcomed.

Grant Tucker > Grant Tucker

29 Aug 2018

the Government has allocated 16 million to the keys 2 drive program, which in my experience rarely changed much about the participants attitude to learning, if however, the focus of this lesson or perhaps 2 of them, was to educate the parent/supervisor, with a focus on the defensive driving techniques and sequences and, more importantly, strict adherence to the law that are required to meet the Government standard, then perhaps, there would be a little less (unintentional) ignorance amongst the community regarding why and how students need so much training to obtain a licence. It will never work in every case but if these lessons were funded, and promoted as a way of reducing the potential amount of lessons that may be required, it may work for some. Also, I read further down regarding capped price lessons. This is a market, and market forces apply, however, If you have a cap, then the business will find ways to reduce costs, and this wont work unless you start subsidising lessons. Is this really a path we want to head down. I am far from the most costly trainer, but if they want a licence, the government need to make some effort to explain exactly how high the standard is....tv or radio spots would be good.

Government Agency

Driver Training Reform > Grant Tucker

30 Aug 2018

Hi Grant, thanks for your contribution re upskilling parents /qualified supervising drivers - all ideas or solutions are gratefully received!
Capping a lesson/test is one of the many ideas that has been raised and its something that we'll consider.

Diane Campbell > Grant Tucker

19 Sep 2018

well, if it is capped one should allow for differential fees for things like - night & weekend driving and add-ons - eg I know one school picks kids from school, does the lesson then drives 'em home.

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Darren Clark

25 Aug 2018

It doesnt make any positive difference how new drivers are assessed because I do not see any improvement in the overall standard of drivers gaining their licence over the last 20 years. It seems to me that the only time the majority of drivers actually attempt to abide by the road laws is when doing their training or during their assessment and then they forget most of what they learned or choose to ignore what they learned. The biggest problem I see is that once a person gets their licence they see it as a right and not a privilege that has to be continually earned by for instance continually making themselves aware of the current and new road laws and actively abiding by these road laws. In my town for instance there are a number of large multi laned roundabouts that the vast majority of road users do not know how to navigate through using the road laws and there seems to me to be no emphasis placed by police in educating nor penalising road users that navigate through these roundabouts, and this is just one of numerous instances of road users not abiding by road laws and causing dangerous situations. There does not seem to be any emphasis placed on ongoing training or at least road users actively updating their knowledge of road laws and it seems that during training to gain a licence or during an actual driving test is probably the safest time for most of these drivers and after this there is a gradual drop off of adherence to the road laws or even care factor and people just become sloppy and lazy drivers.

Government Agency

Driver Training Reform > Darren Clark

27 Aug 2018

Hi Darren, thanks for commenting. I agree with you that many in the community regard holding a driver's licence as a right rather than a privilege, and I think you're absolutely right in naming this as one of the core fundamental issues. I also agree that some drivers can become 'sloppy' - I too see this on the roads.
How would you tackle the problem of 'lack of emphasis on ongoing training' or 'road users not actively updating their knowledge'?
Mandating periodic driving tests for all licence holders to retain your driver's licence is one option but, it could be argued, that such a policy option would render holding a drivers licence for some community members to be inaccessible and unaffordable.
I am really interested to hear your thoughts on this.

Scott Davis > Darren Clark

29 Aug 2018

Licence renewal is a once-a-decade experience.
I would support a requirement that as part of that renewal process, a driver must pass a VORT and the renewal only covers the class of vehicle that they sat the test in.

I hold an MR licence based on having passed a class 2a test over 30 years ago, and suspect I have renewed my licence twice (with class upgrades due to the tiers changing) since I last drove a heavy vehicle.

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Cheynie Venables

22 Aug 2018

The current overseas licence conversion doesn't make any sense.

Overseas licence holders are allowed to drive on our roads before sitting their driving test.

It should be the other way around.

It would prevent so many accidents!

Makes absolutely no sense at all.!

Government Agency

Driver Training Reform > Cheynie Venables

22 Aug 2018

Hi Cheynie, overseas licence holders are allowed to drive on our roads, as visiting motorists, for a short period under the authority of the licence issued by the overseas country. This is an international convention to which the Australian Govt a signatory to and this convention also allows someone like you and me to drive in a signatory foreign country when we go there on holidays. Check out these two websites: http://www.austroads.com.au/drivers-vehicles/overseas-driver-licences/visiting-drivers and http://www.mylicence.sa.gov.au/my-car-licence/international-drivers that refer to this. The legislation and policy around transfer of overseas licences to an Australian licence is complex. In your Authorised Examiner role I think its important that, if you're interested in this area, and want to understand it, that we work with you so that you understand the why, how and what of overseas licence transfers. Can I suggest that you contact the DPTI:Driver Trainer Enquiries mailbox once you've had a chance to check out the two website links I've sent you and then happy to answer your specific queries.

Cheynie Venables > Cheynie Venables

22 Aug 2018

Hi, I'm not saying I don't understand it.

Sorry, I thought you wanted feedback on the driver training and assessment process?

I was just simply saying I don't agree with the current process...thats all.

Scott Davis > Cheynie Venables

29 Aug 2018

I have rented cars as a tourist in NZ, UK and Canada (and also drove that one in USA). As a tourist visiting for a short period, it would be unreasonably onerous for those countries to have required me to pass a practical driving test before I could have legally driven.

Our tourism industry would suffer if we did not allow foreign tourists to drive in Australia on their home licence, and other countries would quite reasonably remove the same privilege form us.

Are foreign tourists over-represented in road crash statistics relative to Australian tourists on the same roads? The comparison should be only against tourists to remove "familiarity with the road" as a reason why foreign drivers might be over represented against the total Australian population.

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B Schroeder

21 Aug 2018

The closure of the road safety centre on Oaklands Rd was a big mistake. It provided a fantastic opportunity for new drivers to learn the craft in a safer and especially structured environment. It was just after it closed that I taught my children to drive, and we sorely missed the facilities it provided.

Another problem is the ridiculously high number of hours required for learner drivers before they can move on. Throwing more hours at them is no more effective than throwing money at other problems. Yes, a certain number of hours is important, but after that it simply becomes nuisance and expense for little gain.

On a different side of the coin, it could be worth putting some effort behind encouraging motorists to be more aware of, considerate of, and patient with learner drivers.

Government Agency

Driver Training Reform > B Schroeder

22 Aug 2018

Hi there, thanks for your comments.
Learner drivers are required to obtain a minimum of 75 supervised driving hours because the road safety evidence and statistics shows that novice drivers are at a higher crash risk due to their inexperience. Clearly when setting the minimum hours the Registrar of Motor Vehicles needs to take into account a whole range of factors including mitigating the risk to the novice driver (and other road users), and the affordability, convenience, accessibility of gaining a licence. You may be surprised to know that other states require higher minimum supervised driving hours for learner drivers.
Thanks for your suggestion about encouraging motorists to be more patient with learner drivers, we already require learner drivers to wear L plates in order for other road users to recognize that they are an inexperienced driver and to use caution when interacting with them on the road.

Scott Davis > B Schroeder

29 Aug 2018

"we already require learner drivers to wear L plates in order for other road users to recognize that they are an inexperienced driver and to use caution when interacting with them on the road"

I have rarely felt the need to use *additional* caution around a car that displays L plates. If the car in front or behind me is weaving across lane lines and jerky in acceleration and braking, I will exercise extreme caution or get out of the way regardless of whether they have L plates. they might just be drunk!

On the flip side, I have experienced (as Supervising driver) a large truck tailgating a young driver displaying L plates during her first full experience of driving on a rural highway and being allowed to use cruise control. My instruction to her (just outside of Barmera) was "leave it on cruise control and don't brake unless the truck backs off far enough to see your brake lights". The truck eased off enough for her to get out of its way at Blanchetown!

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Klára Jiroušková

21 Aug 2018

As a foreigner living in SA I have noticed a couple of issues and these should be addressed:

1) Road awareness and consideration of other drivers: too many drivers do not indicate, change directions suddenly not giving enough reaction time for drivers behind, or block the traffic.

2) Gaps between cars on the traffic lights. A large number of drivers keep unnecessary distance between cars. Some even more than 2 m. This affects how many cars will go through on the green light. It is basically slowing down the traffic.

3) Light and use of fog lights. A massive amount of people have their light not working. Also, I don't understand why so many people use fog lights even during the day here. The lights are designed for foggy conditions, hence are very bright. Especially at night, this becomes an issue.

4) Too many elderly people behind the wheels who drive to slow and chaotically, clearly unfit to drive.

5) Why there is not an obligatory driving course for everyone when obtaining L licence? The lack of such an instrument is obviously contributing to many bad habits on the road.

Government Agency

Driver Training Reform > Klára Jiroušková

22 Aug 2018

Hi Klara, thanks for your comments. I think your observations are helpful. I suggest you check out our website www.mylicence.sa.gov.au which aims to summarise the driver licensing laws in South Australia and be a key resource for the SA community. The MyLicence website covers such matters as the Road Rules, Vehicle Standards (in relation to the fog lights) and the fitness to drive requirements (in relation to your 4th comment). It also covers the requirements for a learners permit holder in significant detail. In South Australia we historically haven't had a single requisite driving course for learners permit holders for a whole lot of reasons. Can you tell me your country of origin (or other countries that you are aware of) who have such a single requirement (and any websites that detail this) and I'll certainly do some research on this.

Diane Campbell > Klára Jiroušková

19 Sep 2018

Mr/Ms Jiroušková is absolutely right - I've been at traffic light intersections in Adelaide where, given the astonishingly slow response to a green light only ONE car has crossed!!! And if they are a car length apart, it may prevent other users from being able to access a left turning lane. While I am known as "the gutless wonder' to my loving family owing to my own reluctance to run orange lights or inappropriately refuse to give way, I cannot see any reason to leave more than a metre at most when stopped at intersections. The reason, Mr/Ms Jiroušková, that SA users don't indicate is the regrettable fact that other drivers will attempt to block them from changing lanes and I'm sure you've seen that. We need a few "targeted" campaigns on that - and you know, it would be easy to put in fixed cameras where a lane closes. (sorry, I'm slightly off topic, but I swear that SA students aren't taught to give way to drivers who are ahead of them and wish to change lanes.) I get caught out in NSW; I indicate and prepare to wait for people to zoom past only to get honked by a driver patiently waiting for me!!! One SA in-law used to play "close the gap" by putting out an indicator and seeing how many drivers behind him in the other lane sped up to pass, one would merely "close the gap" himself muttering indignantly "he hasn't got any right to get in front of me." Both drivers habitually use the right lane for many km, knowing that they might not be able to move over when they need to and that's something else that slows traffic.

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Kerre Willsher

21 Aug 2018

Not sure if I am posting in the right place but are their any driver training schemes or refreshers for older drivers? There are also increasing numbers of people with dementia getting behind the wheel creating danger for themselves and others, not to mention distress for family members.
Kerre

Government Agency

Driver Training Reform > Kerre Willsher

22 Aug 2018

Hi Kerre, thanks for your comment. You raise a couple of points which I'll address in turn. Check out the Moving Right Along program here https://www.dpti.sa.gov.au/communityprograms/programs/moving_right_along which may be helpful to you. We also encourage anyone who is seeking a driving skills refresher to contact a Motor Driving Instructor to get some additional training and/or refresh their knowledge of the road rules via a couple of quizzes found here http://www.mylicence.sa.gov.au/road-rules, and the RAA also provide this as per their website https://www.raa.com.au/driverrefresh.
You also suggested that some people are driving when they are not fit to drive. Check out this information on our website http://www.mylicence.sa.gov.au/road-rules/the-drivers-handbook/fitness-to-drive and I encourage you that if you are aware of family or friends who may shouldn't be driving to check with them as to whether the Registrar of Motor Vehicles have been told about their condition by either the licence holder or their medical practitioner.
PS It seems that hyperlinks don't work here so please copy and paste these links into your browser to view these website pages.

Kerre Willsher > Kerre Willsher

22 Aug 2018

Thank you,
Kerre

Diane Campbell > Kerre Willsher

19 Sep 2018

Driver Training Reform. As an exercise, pretend you are a doctor and go to that site and try to find out how to report someone as potentially unfit to drive. By the way, ought that not to be expanded a bit - no reason why nurses, car salesmen "I've had this licence for 50 years sonny & never used it, thought I'd get me a car before I died" and others shouldn't report concerns. There is another site https://austroads.com.au/drivers-and-vehicles/assessing-fitness-to-drive which does have the forms (decades ago a booklet used to be more widely available...) - good luck finding the right one and the correct address and I suggest using stopwatch just to make it interesting.

Diane Campbell > Kerre Willsher

19 Sep 2018

PS very much liked the additional information on the SA "fitness to drive" page about free public transport for the elderly. I hadn't realised until recently that a senior card was available for over-60s working < 20 hours/week and its absolutely brilliant.

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Georgina Harris

20 Aug 2018

It would be beneficial to update the CBT&A to not require so much time spent on perfecting the 5 slow speed manoeuvres (I had to spend approx $400 to get Unit 2: Task 13 signed off) I realised that the instructor had a needlessly complicated method he was trying to pass on. But because I wasn't performing the manoeuvre following his exact steps, he wasn't signing it off even though I could perform the manoeuvre and adhere to the task requirements outlined in the CBT&A. Instructors seem to be allowed some discretion with how they think a task should be done. These were his notes:
1 1/2 left
1 1/2 right
1 1/2 right
1 1/2 left
1st pole
R/Mirror
Straight 1 1/2 rot right
1st pole again. L/Hand A-pillar
Pivot in & correct (Max moves B,D,B)
The we have a squiggle of diagrams.

I can perform this manoeuvre but am no rocket scientist so cannot follow the above instruction not to mention the car I drive in handles completely differently. So I failed all the time.
I would like to see a driver of 20+ years be able to follow this particular method and pass the test. Is this that important? Shouldn't there be more of a emphasis on lane changes, safe following distances, courteous driving, road position etc

Government Agency

Driver Training Reform > Georgina Harris

22 Aug 2018

Hi Georgina, I too am confused by these notes! Thanks for your suggestions and comments. We are currently reviewing and updating the CBT&A car manual as we speak. Task 13 is the reverse parallel park and it is a complicated task that many novice drivers struggle with due to its complexity. Learning how to safely reverse into a park is very important as carparks are a hotspot for crashes refer https://www.raa.com.au/community-and-advocacy/media-releases/1005. We are considering implementing a practical assessment for instructors, upon their instructor licence renewal, to check their standards of driving, training and assessment and also auditing their driving standards during the term of their instructor licence. Through this we could provide an instructor with feedback about such matters as their teaching methods and driving standards. Let me know what you think of these ideas.

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Bill Hackett

17 Aug 2018

All new drivers should sit and pass a Advanced driver training course after twelve months on P Plates, before a full licence is issued. I believe new drivers do not have the ability to control a vehicle in a situation nor understand speed reactions times.

Lyn Muller > Bill Hackett

18 Aug 2018

I agree with what you are saying and believe young drivers should understand that the car is a deadly weapon.

Government Agency

Driver Training Reform > Bill Hackett

20 Aug 2018

Hi Bill (and Lyn)
Can I please clarify what you are proposing? Are you saying that each novice driver should be required to undertake two practical driving tests, one to gain their provisional licence and the second to gain a full licence?

Lyn Muller > Bill Hackett

20 Aug 2018

I feel that ,yes young drivers could have a practical test to gain their full licence, but maybe make it an advanced test .

Government Agency

Driver Training Reform > Bill Hackett

20 Aug 2018

Hi Lyn, thanks for your response and clarification.

Bill Hackett > Bill Hackett

20 Aug 2018

Yes, novice should be required to complete two practical tests

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Government Agency

Driver Training Reform

16 Aug 2018

Hi Lyn, thanks for your comment.
You are right to be concerned as the evidence shows that there are higher fatalities on country roads than in the city. Upon gaining a learner's permit a person is given a publication called The Drivers Handbook which sets out safe driving strategies including country driving. The learner's theory test also tests their knowledge of safe driving strategies.
You may not realise that the logbook method (CBT&A) has a specific task that requires a person to be trained and assessed in country driving (Task 22), which needs to be completed before they can gain their licence.
Do you have any other suggestions about how else we can get this message out to drivers?

Lyn Muller > Driver Training Reform

18 Aug 2018

Thank you for responding to my concerns and I believe you are already doing everything possible to educate young drivers. I have been driving for 40 + years and must say I have seen some really dumb driving.

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Lyn Muller

16 Aug 2018

I am concerned about young drivers not knowing how to drive on country roads. This includes the amount of space allowed when overtaking another vehicle , firstly tailgating, then racing to overtake and cutting off the vehicle they have passed.

Matthew Hogan > Lyn Muller

17 Aug 2018

I agree with your concerns. Altho overtaking is the most risky and dangerous activity in driving a car, it is also the one activity that driving instructors cannot teach. Unless there is a vehicle going at a speed of 90km/hr or less, how do we instruct our learner drivers to overtake. I have done many country road drives. yet only have had the chance once or twice to physically instruct the learner in overtaking a car. Most times it is a verbal instruction. A token effort at the best. We can teach them the principles of overtaking on the freeway, when there is a slow moving truck, but that,s not the same as on the highway.

Government Agency

Driver Training Reform > Lyn Muller

20 Aug 2018

Hi Matthew
Thank you for posting your comments - Do you have any suggestions about how we can better teach or address overtaking principles? Can we do this better and if so how?

Georgina Harris > Lyn Muller

20 Aug 2018

It was impossible for my instructor to teach overtaking at high speeds on country roads when there were no available instances to perform such a manoeuvre. This is where an update of Hazard Perception Test would be useful and add this into the test here.

Government Agency

Driver Training Reform > Lyn Muller

22 Aug 2018

Hi Georgina, thanks for the suggestion about possible content for the Hazard Perception Test. I understand the Registrar of Motor Vehicles is in the final stages of rolling out an updated Hazard Perception Test - I'm not sure whether this is already in the updated content, I'll have to check.

Diane Campbell > Lyn Muller

19 Sep 2018

Duh. Go out in pairs and practice overtaking each other.

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Jacqueline Condon

15 Aug 2018

I would agree with capping the fee.

Government Agency

Driver Training Reform > Jacqueline Condon

15 Aug 2018

Thanks Jacqueline, good to know. I appreciate your response.

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Tash Neame

15 Aug 2018

Driving lessons are very expensive now, so most parents are teaching kids themselves & therefore passing on bad habits. What concerns me the most is that young people are not being taught how to look out for motorcycles or cyclists, and the culture of mobile phone use & driving with distractions is also being passed on to children. I have on multiple occasions had to take evasive action to not be hit by car drivers while riding my motorcycle who are using their phones, most of whom are 30yrs old or under.

Teach a culture of looking for ALL road users, not just other car drivers.

Rosa Fitzgerald > Tash Neame

15 Aug 2018

I agree that it is frustrating to see people on their phones while driving, especially after watching the series of television advertisements highlighting this illegal habit. In respect to your comments about parents potentially passing on bad habits to their learner drivers I would like to share some useful information. Before taking to the roads with a learner driver a parent can inform themselves on current road rules. They can also prepare themselves to become effective informal instructors by accessing the Federal Government Keys2drive program (keys2drive.com.au) which enables the learner driver and their parent/supervisor to a free lesson with an accredited professional driving instructor. I accessed this initiative with my own teenager learner driver and it was extremely helpful and informative.

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Driver Training Reform > Tash Neame

15 Aug 2018

Hi Tash, thanks for your comment.
We are doing our best to educate all road users about how best to interact with each other so that every user is safe on South Australian roads. Do you have any suggestions about how we can better engage or skill parents to better prepare their children?
Hi Rosa, sounds like you got a lot out of Keys2Drive - well done! For those people struggling to cover costs there are a number of driver programs like Keys2Drive, offered by organisations such as local councils or HYPA that can support those obtaining a licence. We also put a lot of work into the My Licence website (www.mylicence.sa.gov.au) to provide up to date information on everything from buying a safe car, road law, licence requirements and cyclist safety. There is also a practice learner theory test on this website. How could we promote this more as a tool for the community to utilise?

Rosa Fitzgerald > Tash Neame

15 Aug 2018

Perhaps introduce education/information into high schools as a community engagement initiative to promote the My Licence website.

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Driver Training Reform > Tash Neame

20 Aug 2018

Hi Rosa, yes, we do already try to promote the My Licence website in highschools, but I agree that we could talk to the Education Department and try and ramp this up to get the message out there

Scott Davis > Tash Neame

29 Aug 2018

I see drivers of all ages using mobile phones etc. I would say that if you notice these habits in the younger drivers, they have learned them from their parents. By the time a teenager first gets to drive legally on their L plates, they have been watching their parents and others drive for at least 16 years.

When I taught my wife to drive, her assessor spotted a bad habit and assumed it was something she picked up from me. It wasn't, it was from her father, and something I had called her on several times as well.

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William Young

14 Aug 2018

The process of obtaining a licence has become more expensive over time, and this makes it less accessible to those with lower incomes and larger families. Clearly the safety of young drivers (and other road users) is very important, but is there any evidence that shows a causal link between the amount and type of training a young driver attends and their safety record? I'd like to see the regulator adopt, as a matter or principle, a position that any proposed increases in requirement that increase cost of learners are tested for effectiveness before they are made compulsory.

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Driver Training Reform > William Young

15 Aug 2018

Hi William, the quality of the driver training a person receives influences their ability to remain safe on our roads. There is lots of evidence to show that inexperienced drivers are at a higher risk of serious injury or fatality.
We are always mindful of additional assessment requirements adding to costs and therefore have been discussing options to minimize costs involved in obtaining a licence.

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Paul Anderson

14 Aug 2018

More needs to be done to validate the position of cyclists on the roads. Not just passing safely etc, but properly respecting and accommodating cyclists on the road. Currently many drivers see cyclists as a problem, an impediment to their progress, a less than legimitate road user; or they are confounded and don’t quite know how to react around cyclists. Teaching drivers to welcome cyclists rather than merely tolerating them (one less car), to open doors safely and when in doubt to use the brake pedal rather than the accelerator, etc etc. As there is not much around for training cyclists themselves, including serious cycling education in the licensing system (most adult cyclists also have a driving licence) would help plug some gaps and bring a ‘level playing field’ in road user education.

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Driver Training Reform > Paul Anderson

15 Aug 2018

Hi Paul, we are doing our best to educate all road users about how best to interact with each other so that every user is safe on South Australian roads. Check out The Driving Companion, which is found online here, http://mylicence.sa.gov.au/the-driving-companion - it features new information such as The Dutch Reach, with the intention of keeping cyclists safe.

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Rosa Fitzgerald

14 Aug 2018

Gaining a driver licence is an important step into achieving independence for a young person. From a recent parent perspective it is an expensive process as the cost of driving lessons can vary widely by accredited instructors, in my opinion this industry could do with increased regulation with caps in place on cost per lesson.

William Young > Rosa Fitzgerald

14 Aug 2018

I can't make specific comment about the current industry in South Australia as I don't have experience. (I received my licence interstate, and my children are not yet old enough).
But I agree with what you are saying in principle Rosa. Getting a licence is a very important part of achieving independence, and being employable. I don't know if price caps are the right answer, but we certainly need to make sure that licences are accessible to all regardless of their wealth.

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Driver Training Reform > Rosa Fitzgerald

15 Aug 2018

Hi William and Rosa, thanks for your contributions, we are discussing options to ensure quality driver training is accessible and affordable for all members of the South Australian community and caps on lesson costs is definitely one option.

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Ross Simons

14 Aug 2018

I am 80+ and tried to do your survey but could not complete it. I have been driving for 64+ years in South Australia and have never had any paid driver training and have never had a driving test. in 1954 you only had to sit for a written test and if you passed you were given a full license for both Motor Cycles & Motor Cars. I did this a few weeks after my 16th Birthday. However I have just been to an RAA Driver assessment and refresher course. I think this should be compulsory for anyone over seventy particularly in South Australia.

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Driver Training Reform > Ross Simons

15 Aug 2018

Hi Ross, well done on undertaking the course, you're obviously an experienced driver.
With the higher volume of traffic on the road these days and our faster vehicles, do you have any suggestions about how we can better train young drivers to drive safe on the roads?

Ross Simons > Ross Simons

16 Aug 2018

Two things concern me ,is young drivers in powerful don't know how to handle them. Driving too fast and loosing control and kill themselves hitting a tree. There used to be a skid pan in South Australia where young driver could learn how to control their car in slippery conditions. I remember using a very slippery road in the country where I learned at slow speed what I could do with the car before I lost control , such as over-correcting braking etc.

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Driver Training Reform > Ross Simons

20 Aug 2018

Hi Ross, you are right that inexperienced drivers are at a higher risk of injury or fatality on the road, due to their inexperience. We do require a learner's permit holder to pass a hazard perception test before gaining their provisional licence and they are also required to undertake 75 supervised driving hours in order to become more familiar and confident to safely operate a vehicle unsupervised.

Byron Macdonald > Ross Simons

20 Aug 2018

My name is Byron Macdonald: I am nearly as old as Ross, I was born in 1940 and tried to do the survey also. It does not cater for people like us as we had no official training only answered a few questions and we were responsible for our competence to drive. In my case I was brought up on country roads and learnt to drive at an early age on private property and my parents made certain that I was competent before I was driving alone. I also believe drivers should be allowed to experience slippery conditions and the loss of road adhesion (a slide) .This could be set up in a safe area , I know there are people capable of teaching this safely.
I believe road shoulder recovery should also be part of the driver training this also can be taught in a safe environment. There are many drivers who have an inbuilt fear of the road verge and must be avoided. This fear has lead to fatalities when drivers who found themselves off the sealed area over corrected and lost control colliding with oncoming vehicles or other obstacles, like trees . Many road verges have been sealed making these roads much safer which is a great help to make our roads safer, but I still think road shoulders need to be included in training.

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Driver Training Reform > Ross Simons

22 Aug 2018

Hi Byron, thanks for your comment. I understand your frustration that the survey did not specifically cater for your situation and I apologise for that. I appreciate your comments about road shoulder recovery and teaching novice drivers to control a car during slippery conditions - this is a component for country areas in the logbook method where these conditions might apply.

Ross Simons > Ross Simons

22 Aug 2018

I strongly disagree that are no slippery conditions in the city.
I have fallen off a motor cycle twice in the city after a light shower of rain. Once with braking while on a white line (I slid into the middle of the intersection, fortunately no cars. Another time I hit a patch of diesel oil on a corner left by buses and slid into the curb again no injuries because I knew how to control the slide. A show of rain on a bitumen after a long dry spell can be as slippery as a muddy road.

Diane Campbell > Ross Simons

19 Sep 2018

Good for Ross. I have heard rumours of programs providing codrivers for indigent/unsupported learners and perhaps this would be a great use of "grey power." Provide advanced course/ supervisors course and fuel...….. would these experienced drivers then volunteer?

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Kelvin McInerney

14 Aug 2018

A driving license is a privilege not a right, however I think DPTI needs to clarify or make clear the difference between government accredited instructors and those who's business model is based purely on training kids to pass a test. The CBT&A method is excellent way to achieve the driving skills required to be safe when a instructor has the right motive.

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Driver Training Reform > Kelvin McInerney

15 Aug 2018

Thanks Kelvin for your comment, do you have any suggestions on how we can identify those industry members who have such a business model?

Kelvin McInerney > Kelvin McInerney

15 Aug 2018

It may sound radical, but by removing the VORT option removes that business model. This could make auditing more effective because less time spent on routes and identifing unethical people training on VORT routes means more time with instructors. Those training clients to pass a test would be force to train clients to meet the CBT&A standards, although only accredited instructors could sign off tasks. With some adjustments to the auditing process, such as asking for a slow speed maneuvers during audits, I feel would identify some in the industry who are not doing the right thing.

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Driver Training Reform > Kelvin McInerney

20 Aug 2018

Hi Kelvin, I agree with you that a drivers licence is a privilege rather than a right.
I appreciate your suggestion about removing VORT and its something that we will definitely consider - all suggestions for improvements are more than welcome.

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Jacqueline Condon

14 Aug 2018

For an individual to get a driving license it is extremely expensive. We have our 7th and 8th child getting the license presently and whilst the current instructor is good we have felt ripped off by this poorly regulated industry. Our first 2 children cost well over a $1000 each. The instructor would take them for a lesson but tick nothing off in the book and a number of instructors that followed until the current instructor did the same thing.

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Driver Training Reform > Jacqueline Condon

15 Aug 2018

Hi Jacqueline, thanks for your comment. It has been discussed about possibly capping lesson fees - would you support this?

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